Tuesday, October 18, 2005

Orange and Lemons' "Pinoy Ako," a rip-off

I like the Orange and Lemons band. Not because they're also BulakeƱos, but because they offer a fresh and vibrant sound amid the melange of rock and pseudo-rock bands (mostly of the pogi-rock-band type) currently lording over the local music scene. When the group came out with "Hanggang Kailan," I instantly became a fan.

Their second hit for me is better than the first one. It has the right ingredients for a follow-up hit: Quite-poppy-but-catchy melody, nice lyrics, and a cool band image. Not to mention that this is the theme song of the hit ABS-CBN reality show "Pinoy Big Brother." But, I'd like to think that "Pinoy Ako" is a hit because it is about having a sense of pride as a Filipino.

A few weeks ago, there were news reports that the Orange and Lemons hit is a rip-off from a foreign group. A Manila Bulletin report on the issue carried the denial of band member Clem who said that "Pinoy Ako" is different from the song "Chandelier," an original song of the UK-based 80's band The Care. A representative of the Star Records, which released the group's song, said that Orange and Lemons may have been influenced by the new wave group but the former did not copy their song. Initially, I didn't give a damn about the issue. I thought maybe someone was trying to pull down Orange and Lemons. And besides, I do not know The Care, so I can't really compare if Orange and Lemons did copy one of The Care's songs.

I was browsing the popular blogsite pinoy.rickey.org recently, and lo and behold, he also wrote about the issue. He even got the mp3 files of the two songs in contention (and for that I salute you, Mr. Rickey!). Here are his links to download the files:

Pinoy Ako - Orange and Lemons

Chandelier - The Care

After hearing both songs, I'm convinced. Orange and Lemons copied the melody of "Chandelier." Why, for an unsuspecting listener, "Pinoy Ako" could even pass as the Tagalog version of The Care original! The songs do not have the same lyrics, but eerily, have almost the same melody, except for the chorus part.

Someone commented in the pinoy.rickey.org post on the rip-off issue who said that there are other alleged rip-off cases earlier this year.

The hit "Leaving You" of another good group, Session Road, was a rip-off from the "Garmonbozia" song of the US-based band Superdrag. Actually, I've heard this rumor before in Pulp Community, but I did not have the Superdrag song back then.

And the second case was the more recent hit "Stay" of the pogi-rock band Cueshe. It was allegedly copied from a song of the Australian grunge band Silverchair entitled "The Greatest View."

I looked for these foreign songs in Limewire (I already have "Leaving You" and "Stay" in my music folder) and fortunately, they are available. Too bad, I can't upload the mp3 files here in my blog (unless http://www.blogger.com has uploading features that I do not know) but if you want a copy, just give me a pm on my yahoo messenger id -- deadlynecromancer.

And oh, my conclusion: "Leaving You" is indeed a rip-off! "Leaving You" unabashedly copied the melody of "Garmonbozia." The melody of both songs are almost the same, even in the chorus part. The melody of the two songs are so similar that you would think Session Road and Superdrag are the same (well, maybe except on the vocalist, since Session Road's vox is a female and Superdrag's a guy).

Compared with how Session Road ripped off "Garmonbozia" and turned it into "Leaving You," you'll only notice the similarity between "Stay" and "The Greatest View" on the chorus part, where the tune in both are similar. But, "The Greatest View" is edgier and harder in guitar riffs and drum beats compared with "Stay," aside from the fact that Silverchair's Daniel Johns has a much wider vocal range than the two cutesy vocalists of Cueshe. So, I don't think "Stay" is a rip-off from "The Greatest View." This is where I can accept the argument that maybe Cueshe is "inspired" by Silverchair.

Going back to Orange and Lemons, I profess that I am not a music expert, but as an avid music enthusiast and a band member, I dare say: "Pinoy Ako," the song that tells Filipinos to show to the whole wide world that we are proud as Pinoys, was a blatant rip-off. How ironic.

Download the files. Judge for yourself. And tell me your thoughts about the issue. It doesn't matter if we agree or not.

53 comments:

Fab_Black said...

I don't know what you mean by ripp-off I pressume this bands are not selling their songs for a cost of fortune... I personally think that Orange & lemons are just plain ol' bands that really idolized foreign sounds and melodies, (and I don't blame them for that)it's not their fault that "Pinoy Ako"song has similar harmony with The Care's,sometimes it happens not for any other reason but for the reason that intruments and rythm used are just perfect for the words written as a song... it's like Red Hot chili peppers's music, as you listen to their boring songs, you would actually find that all the melodies and harmonies are almost identical in all their albums.. it's like u wanna tell them ..hey dude can you not think of any new sounds?...lolz.

bryant said...

Thanks for the comment. I know what you're talking about, since our band too idolizes foreign acts like Finch, The Used, Silverstein, among others. And our musical influences directly affect the way we compose our songs. If you listen to some of our songs, you could find traces of our fave bands -- in the riffs, melody, etc. But, when I heard the "Chandelier," I felt: "Pinoy Ako" does not just have traces of "Chandelier," but it actually plagiarized The Care song!

overactress said...

most songs of the same genre follow a similar chord progression, and the group might have been inspired by the song. As long as the chorus part is different, I do not see anything wrong with a song that has a similar chord progression as another song.

bryant said...

Don't you think it's too much of an inspiration? Sure, just for argument's sake. let's give in to the fact that the group might have been influenced by The Care, and that being in one genre means having similarities in chord progression.

But, fer cryin' out loud, as musicians, they should have modified some patterns in what you say is an "inspired" chord progression. In that way, no one could accuse them of ripping off "Chandelier." It's basically the same. No change at all. Isn't it plagiarism?

"Pinoy Ako" is basically "Chandelier," that's what I think.

And, assuming that they were "inspired" by The Care song, how come they didn't acknowledge that fact? Given the all-too similar chords of the two songs, they should have credited The Care for giving them a chord template to put in their chorus -- ooopps, i mean song -- lyrics.

babols007 said...

pinoy ako, yes.
leaving you, yes.
stay? with the greatest view? i think its not.

bryant said...

babols, yes, same thoughts too.

Corie said...

try to watch kontrobersyal mamaya.. to clear things up daw. they were trying to say na inspired/influenced sila ng the care...pero ang sa akin lang.. bakit hindi nila binigyan ng proper acknowledgement ung the care band simulat simula pa lang. *_*

bryant said...

hahaha. we're both getting the heat in this blog and in the Kapamilya forum. sad sad sad.

johnnymarky said...

mamya sa kontrobersyal... i am really gonna watch it.

pareho nga simula pero sa gitna ibang ibang na. kahit rip-off sya, i still like the song (addict song ko nga to eh, parati ako na LSS dito - last song syndrome)

Anyway, cheers to pinoy big brother, orange and lemons, the care! :)

bryant said...

yes, i have watched the last parts of kontrobersyal (why are public affairs shows start and end so late?). will do a follow-up post based on what I saw last night.

E.D. Canopen said...

i agree.
pinoy ako is a rip-off.
although i love it and memorize it like the national anthem. i was damned that it was a total rip-off. you can't say it's just SIMILAR(to 'chandelier'), because the drum beats, guitars, and 'melody' is really the same.maybe a small part of the intro or they remove the drum beats - i guess, will make it more unique.

final words - they rip-off the song and make it better.

Alcuin Papa said...

does ripping off a song then supposedly making it "better" actually justify the fact that you ripped it off?

i don't think so. the end does not justify the means.

bryant said...

totally.

Jon Limjap said...

bryant, I hope you don't mind if I link this entry in my blog entries about OnL. :)

http://kapenilattex.blogspot.com/2005/10/orange-and-lemons-contradicts-itself.html

bryant said...

hi jon. sure, no problem.

Pao said...

that is probably because this band is influenced mainly by bands of their genre. or maybe not.

-=::DaiSY::=- said...

HERE'S HOW THEY EXPLAINED THEMSELVES REGARDING THE ISSUE

The press release from the band....



hahahahahah! i expected that reaction . it's true that it was
inspired by the care's diamonds and emeralds and chandeliers. i won't
deny it. what you heard in gweilos was a very rough version. here's
the story behind that song:

July 22 -- i receive a notice that Star Records will commission us to
do a remake of Big Brother Soundtrack (western version). The song was
ok so we agreed to do it.

July 25 -- another notice saying that star records prefers a tagalog
version and that the deadline for the final master would be july 31.

July 26 -- i received the lyrics from jonathan manalo and decided
against adapting the original soundtrack coz i personally felt it wont
work. so i came up with a new melody line. at that time my playlist
includes Diamonds and Emeralds album hence the inspiration and
adaptation not minding if abs cbn would like our version.

July 29 -- i presented the music to star records and guess what they
dig our version.

July 30 & 31 -- proper recording in the studio.

Aug 1 -- submission of final master

Aug 2 -- Video Shoot of the Song Pinoy Ako.

As you see that song is a product of pressure. and i only did what
came naturally to me with regards to the music. the end result was
very favorable to us. i personally like it and proud of it. And for
you to fully scrutinize the song i'm gonna upload it in the file
section. No worries about lawsuits, im sure the care wouldn't mind.
our guitar and banduria intro notes are way different from chandeliers
and as for the melody line we never exceeded the 7 note rule. this
version has a clear pinoy taste if i may say so and injected our
originality in it. but i would appreciate any further comments from
you mate.


Incidentally, Orange and Lemons is a name of a 1989 album by New Wave band XTC, whose sound seems

to have influenced the band too.

bryant said...

Thanks. R u sure that it came from the Orange and Lemons themselves? If this is true, then what they thought could save them further sink them.

Will post a follow-up on the rip-off issue ASAP.

Anonymous said...

lam mo pre, ito ang mga sinasabi pa nila sa egroup na miyembro ako mismo, kasi dating fan ako. KAPAG KINONTRA MO SILA EH WANKER KA! Read on to know how perverted they are and how they pervert the truth!

Ito ang poste nila sa egroup….thread 8701!

From: “cranehead”
Date: Tue Aug 16, 2005 2:30 am
Subject: Re: Pinoy Big Brother Song cranehead
Offline
Send Email

hahahahahah! i expected that reaction eric. it’s true that it was
inspired by the care’s diamonds and emeralds and chandeliers. i won’t
deny it. what you heard in gweilos was a very rough version. here’s
the story behind that song:

July 22 — i receive a notice that Star Records will commission us to
do a remake of Big Brother Soundtrack (western version). The song was
ok so we agreed to do it.

July 25 — another notice saying that star records prefers a tagalog
version and that the deadline for the final master would be july 31.

July 26 — i received the lyrics from jonathan manalo and decided
against adapting the original soundtrack coz i personally felt it wont
work. so i came up with a new melody line. at that time my playlist
includes Diamonds and Emeralds album hence the inspiration and
adaptation not minding if abs cbn would like our version.

July 29 — i presented the music to star records and guess what they
dig our version.

July 30 & 31 — proper recording in the studio.

Aug 1 — submission of final master

Aug 2 — Video Shoot of the Song Pinoy Ako.

As you see that song is a product of pressure. and i only did what
came naturally to me with regards to the music. the end result was
very favorable to us. i personally like it and proud of it. And for
you to fully scrutinize the song i’m gonna upload it in the file
section. No worries about lawsuits, im sure the care wouldn’t mind.
our guitar and banduria intro notes are way different from chandeliers
and as for the melody line we never exceeded the 7 note rule. this
version has a clear pinoy taste if i may say so and injected our
originality in it. but i would appreciate any further comments from
you mate.

Pinoy Ako! haha!

— In orangeandlemons@yahoogroups.com, “eric76_salvador”
wrote:
> Its the first time I heard the song last night at Gweilo’s Makati. I
> thought the band was joking around because after they announced the
> next song as the PBB song, they played the intro to
> Care’s “Chandeliers”. When Mcoy sang in Tagalog, that’s when I
realised
> that its a different song.
>
> I was going to sing “Your eyes are chandeliers..” sana e. Langya,
> plakadong-plakado yung song!Dedemanda kayo ng Care nyan hahahaha!
>
> eric

NATUWA PA ANG MGA GAGO KASI MGA POSER!

eto pa, message 9251 thread:

From: “cranehead”
Date: Sat Sep 3, 2005 5:45 am
Subject: [orange and lemons] Re: OnL’s Pinoy Big Bro song reminds me of The Care. (to colourfield) cranehead
Offline
Send Email

Salamat Eric, my intention of making that particular song sound
Carish has received a lot of both positive and negative feedbacks.
but has served my purpose. Now many are wondering who the
hell “Care” is. You might like to give a few inputs mate about them
and their works or if you have previous reviews of their songs and
album. Whoever is really making the music for the Care songs I
respect and love so much just like the level of enthusiasm i had for
Morrissey’s lyricism/performance and Johnny Marr’s music.

don’t worry eric, just like you, i’m neither one of them…

Clem

“I want the one I can’t have, and it’s driving me mad…”

— In orangeandlemons@yahoogroups.com, “Eric Salvador”
wrote:
> bro. colourfield,
>
> Hope you’ve come to a decision to buy OnL albums upon hearing
their songs. I think you’re also into new wave like some of the
members here. If so, I’m sure you’ll enjoy OnL albums.
>
> Regarding the Pinoy Big Brother song, well, there’s this 7 note
rule pala when it comes to songs. If you reach the 7th note sounding
like another song then you’re ripping off the work of another
artist. I don’t think Pinoy Ako reached that 7th note limit though,
but I can also understand the reaction people have over the song.
>
> Anyway, its quite evident that OnL have a penchant for writing
astounding original music on their own based on the albums they’ve
come out with. I hope that with those merits, palampasin na lang ito
ng iba’ng tao.
>
> Tutal, Pinoy Ako, is a great song, and if I we’re Simpson or
Broudie, I’ll be flattered with it. Sadly though, I’m neither one of
them.
>
> eric

Oh ano?! Di ba? di ba clem ikaw yan? May hell ka pang alam! Burn in it pare! Sama ka diyan Eric Salvador alyas eric76_salvador@yahoo.com o eric.salvador@toyota.com.ph. Ma litson ka sana. Ang kwento ng dalawang bolerang bakla sa ONL egroup say yahoo egroups.

Eto pa! Ngayon, ano ang masasabi ninyo?

From: orangeandlemons@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:orangeandlemons@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of colourfield169
> Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 7:43 AM
> To: orangeandlemons@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [orange and lemons] Re: OnL’s Pinoy Big Bro song reminds
me of
> The Care.
>
>
> Yup, the band could expect these reactions from people who are
> familiar with Ian Broudie’s and Paul Simpson’s work (mga new wave
> generation). Sa unang dinig kasi talaga ng Pinoy Ako, ay mukha
> syang parehong-pareho sa Chandelier.
>
> But if you would play the two songs, particularly the two intros,
> one after the other, syempre richer ang tunog ng Chandelier, pero
> iba nga notes sequence ng Pinoy Ako tulad ng sabi ni Clem,
although
> mukhang same chords. May differences din sa melody line. Yung
bass
> sequence at drums lang ang sa dinig ko ay pareho.
>
> But what could you expect nga naman kasi hora-horada kung
> magpacommission ng work itong Star Records para sa theme song ng
PBB.
>
> New here nga pala, just joined to check mp3 samplers and decide
> whether to buy OnL’s CDs or not.
>
>

Halatang wala na ngang alam sa music yung nakadinig eh NAHALATA PA KAYO?!

Ito ang sabi nila naman sa inquirer:

“We have no malicious intent,” says vocalist
and guitarist Clem Castro. “In fact, we’re not even
aware that such songs already exist.”

Ha? Eto o, bistado na kayo po! Inamin, binawi, binawi, binawi. ano ito, eat bulaga?

Huli na lang ito para sa mga dudero at dudera at sa mga may matang bukas ngunit walang nakikita at sa mga nakakarinig na nagbibibingibingihan!

From: sancho
> > > Date: Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:24 am
> > > Subject: Re: [eraserheads] pinoy pinoy tayo…be
the judge!
> > >
> > > To lay all doubts to rest, here’s an mp3 file na
comparison
ng
> Pinoy Ako and
> > > Chandeliers. On the right speaker, you’ll hear
Chandeliers,
on
> the left is
> > > Orange & Lemons supposedly original composition.
Best
heard on
> your
> > > headphones. Wattashame!
> > >
> > > http://www.4shared.com/dir/100649/ac4043f0
> > >
> > > — snip –
> > >
> > > i attached the mp3 file - sa mga naka web mode,
you can
download
> the mp3 at
> > > http://www.4shared.com/dir/100649/ac4043f0
>

Mabuhay kayong lahat at kunin na ni Lord!

MATAKOT KAYONG MAGING MIYEMBRO NG EGROUP NILA KASI KUNG SABIHIN NINYO NA PAREHO TALAGA EH KAKATAYIN KAYO NITONG MGA BAKLA NA ITO, ERIC SALVADOR, SIDNEY PRESCOTT ALIAS BRYAN, yung bakla na ayaw magpakilala sa email na i”m_your_papi38@yahoo.com.

Kayo rin!

Oh, di pa kayo pagod? Eto pa ang sinabi ni eric salvador, ang tinitingalang new wave guru ng Orange and Lemons, thread 10883.

From: “Eric Salvador”
Date: Wed Oct 12, 2005  3:39 pm
Subject: RE: [orange and lemons] about their case? RESPECT THE BANDS! Part 1 eric.salvador@…
Send Email

…continued…

I don’t think OnL’s “mistake” was made from the copying of that Care song, the
mistake lies on the notion they’ve given to the masses that it was indeed an
original song…a song that was entirely their own. Siguro kung noong una pa,
openly they admitted that the song was based on a foreign song and that parts
were copied from it, wala’ng ganito’ng issue. Tapos agad ito. Anyways, OnL is
still relatively new to the biz. In my opinion, OnL is still capable of rising
from this mess. They are talented artists with brilliant songwriting abilities.
“Pinoy Ako” is just a one-off. Sabi nga ni Clem sa akin, “hindi na mauulit yun”
with a bit of wry smile on his face. At times, sa basketball, me off-night ang
star player…ganito din ang kaso ngayon.

Crab Mentality. I guess I used these words in defense of the band’s previous
works na na-discredit dahil lang sa “Pinoy Ako” song. Unfair kasi yun. Ang
gumagawa lang ng ganun, mga utak-talangka talaga. But I won’t use this crab
mentality as an excuse for “borrowing” parts of a song. It doesn’t justify the
issue.

We talk about respecting the band…Oh, I’m all for that guys. Kaya nga ako
nag-rereact eh. Because I respect the band so much. Hindi na tayo iba sa OnL mga
tol, let them hear what they have to hear, positive man o negative. Also, I
respect bands who create original music….isa na dun ang OnL…isa na dun ang
CARE. IF some of you guys somehow try to convince yourselves na okay lang
kumopya ng kanta, well, I can’t argue with you on that. That’s your opinion. Sa
akin, the least a band can do is to acknowledge immediately and openly the band
and the song where their song was based. Wag nang intayin pang me makapuna, bago
aminin. Ang dating kasi eh OnL held back info and “fooled” people into thinking
that “Pinoy Ako” was entirely theirs, tapos lalabas ang issue at MP3’s ng
Chandeliers…further proof na its more than just influence…me parts talaga na
same, drum beat, melody etc.

Question: How would you feel if a certain band “copies” an OnL song? Of course
not entirely, pero obvious ang melody, chord pattern at beat? Would you still
say, “so what?”. Nah, didn’t think so.

Can they get out of this mess? Like I said earlier, why not? I’m sure that when
the third album (o baka nga third single) is released next year, they will be
able to prove their critics wrong. Real critics know when they are right and are
open to anything. Hindi sarado ang utak. OnL, with their wealth of talent in
songwriting and musicianship will easily dispel the ugly myth.

I wasn’t pissed-off really. just disappointed. And if somebody tells me not to
be in this forum because I feel that way about the song…well…tsk tsk…talk
about open-minds and respect.

My two cents.

eric

Putang ina mo eric salvador! Gusto mo ba ng phone pall? Di kahit ikaw eh inaamin mo rin! Di ba? Ikaw ang nagsulat niyan di ba?

“I don’t think OnL’s “mistake” was made from the copying of that Care song, the
mistake lies on the notion they’ve given to the masses that it was indeed an
original song…a song that was entirely their own. Siguro kung noong una pa,
openly they admitted that the song was based on a foreign song and that parts
were copied from it, wala’ng ganito’ng issue. Tapos agad ito.”



message 11681 and 11643
From: Egrouper Egrouper
Date: Wed Nov 2, 2005  11:38 am
Subject: Re: [orange and lemons] FOR ASS CRACK, E GROUP, AND THE REST OF YOU CRITICS egrouper123
Offline
Send Email


yer full of crap!

--- sid wrote:

> I like that! 'Wet people's appetites' ... We open
> for the Lemons. A
> sweet band opens with us aswell. We play 3 songs
> that night to sow
> the seed and set the scene. No word wot time we
> play. Get there
> early I guess. ;) ... OH MY GOD ... YOU'LL NEVER
> GUESS WOT THEY'RE
> BLASTIN OUTSIDE MY SHOP ... PINOOOOOY! ...
> HAHAHAHAHAHA! ...
> SHHHHH! ... Crack head, Nokia, and Grouper might get
> their panties
> in a bunch ... HAHAHAHAHA!
>
> --- In orangeandlemons@yahoogroups.com, acid maria
>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > u sure know how to whet peoples appetite. ;)
> > what time's ur gig?
> >
> >
> > TIM
> >
> >
> > sid wrote:
> > Yeah ;) ... I can't wait to see you there.
> >
> > --- In orangeandlemons@yahoogroups.com, marie dela
> cruz
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > yah! total chaos! hahaha! cant wait to see it.vL
> na toh! gweilos
> > right? now im interested in condo guz and the man
> named sid.
> > >
> > > acid_ankh wrote:this sounds
> fun.
> > > marie dude, should we file for a leave on the
> 9th now? hehe ;)
> > >
> > > TIM
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In orangeandlemons@yahoogroups.com, "sid"
>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Makati baby ;)
> > > >
> > > > --- In orangeandlemons@yahoogroups.com, sOLo
>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > kuya bryan! eastwood or makati? :)
> > > > >
> > > > > solo
> > > > >
> > > > > On 10/26/05, sid wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > IF YOU WANT TO PICK ON A BAND WITH TALENT
> BECAUSE ITS MORE
> > > > SENSATIONAL
> > > > > > TO BRING A GOOD THING DOWN, THEN WHY DON'T
> YOU FORM YOUR
> OWN
> > > > BAND AND
> > > > > > SHOW THE WORLD HOW GREAT YOU ARE. SHOW US
> HOW MUSIC IS
> > SUPPOSED
> > > > TO BE
> > > > > > PLAYED. BECAUSE AFTER ALL YOU SURE SOUND
> LIKE GOD DIED TO
> > MAKE
> > > > YOU THE
> > > > > > MUSIC AUTHORITY OF THE WORLD. THING IS
> IT'LL NEVER HAPPEN.
> > SO
> > > IF
> > > > YOU
> > > > > > WANT TO SEE TRUE GREATNESS CHECK OUT
> GWEILOS ON THE 9TH OF
> > NOV.
> > > > MY
> > > > > > NAME IS SID. I'LL BE THE GUY BY THE BAR.
> MY BAND'S NAME IS
> > > CONDO
> > > > GUZ.
> > > > > > SEE YA THERE WANKERS. AND BRING THEM BUM
> EARS YER MAMA
> GAVE
> > YA.

Anonymous said...

Music writer blows whistle against Orange and Lemons
   
By KAYE VILLAGOMEZ
The sore truth is that pop band Orange and Lemons ripped-off "Chandeliers" by ?80s duo The Care and used the melody for "Pinoy Ako" according to music correspondent Giselle Roque who beseeched Manila Bulletin after she read an article this broadsheet published last Oct. 5.

"When I was posting e?mails that certain artists did not ask permission [from The Care] and copied ?Chandeliers, I did not mention Orange and Lemons. But they were the ones who reacted and posted their own defense in turn so that was the time that established na kinopya nila talaga yung kanta," Roque, who is also the niece of rock icon Sampaguita added.

"?We did make it Carish? went Orange and Lemons ?admission? and they have the guts to say that these are two different songs?" pointed out Roque, who is a friend of Paul Simpson, who wrote and sang "Chandeliers" for the album "Diamonds and Emeralds."

The other half of The Care duo is Ian Broudie. "Chandeliers" was credited to Broudie/Simpson, like the rest of the songs in the said album, published under Warner Chappell, Ltd. The Care, which was formed in 1983, was most noted for the singles "My Boyish Days," "Flaming Sword," and "Whatever Possessed You."

Roque disclosed to the Bulletin that she could not believe it when Orange and Lemons posted on an e-group mail she received that they were just waiting to be noticed by Simpson and his camp. "They said, At last, this is just what they?ve been waiting for to get noticed. They also said that at least now, people are researching The Cares music. My point is how could people research it if you don?t acknowledge that you got the song from The Care? Ang isinagot ni Clem (Castro of Orange and Lemons) ?E bakit kami magpapaalam? Magpasalamat pa nga ang The Care at pinasikat namin ang kanta nila. It was really frustrating. They even wrote, Do we have to find people who are avid fans of The Care and ask permission from them? Well, if they?d ask me, they didn?t have to track down Care fans, only the person who wrote the song they ripped?off."

She further revealed that "Orange and Lemons said that they were pressured and did not know what else to do. Since they were listening to The Care, to that effect, they decided na puwede ang Chandeliers. I have the e?mail from Orange and Lemons to prove this including the time line explaining they had to rush the song because ABS-CBN gave them barely a week to do it and record the video for Pinoy Ako."

The said ?time line,? Roque gathered, came up when earlier queries were thrown against the band in certain e?groups both Orange and Lemons and Roque belong to.

She continued, "At that time they were commissioned to do the melody of the song, they were listening to The Care and thought that it?s some sort of natural tendency to come out with something that sounds like but I?ve heard of ?Pinoy Ako? and that?s not katunog. When I heard on board a bus, I was almost sure that ?Chandelier?s? lyrics are next after the intro so you could just imagine the shock when Tagalog lyrics settled in! I was like ?Oh my God! What is this?? I didn?t know who ripped the song off that time but same thing, I thought ?This is very sad. This is very frustrating.? Then, somebody from the States e?mailed me that they saw it on ABS?CBN?s ?Big Brother.?"

Meanwhile, ABS?CBN?s official statement on the issue was: "ABS-CBN commissioned Orange and Lemons to compose the music, arrange and perform an original song, ?Pinoy Ako,? as the theme of ?Pinoy Big Brother.? Any inquiry with regard to this matter should be addressed to the band and Universal Records (Orange and Lemons music label)."

A staunch believer of Indie musicians and OPM, Roque was prompted to come out after she read the band?s denial in the Bulletin, which she described, "Dumbfounding. How could they (Orange and Lemons) deny they copied the song when I have all the e?mails to prove them wrong?" noted Roque who has been a music writer for Pulp music magazine since 2003.

Paul Simpson happened to be in constant correspondence with Roque "and as a friend of Paul, it?s unfair for Orange and Lemons to rip-off his song without asking for Paul?s permission. They know very well that I can relay the message for them; instead they apologized to me saying ?apologies to ma?am Giselle;? and that they?re sorry if it caused me sleepless nights, that they are willing to treat me out for coffee?which I felt was very insulting?and the best part is that they said they?re sure that The Care wouldn?t mind. I replied to that e?mail and said ?why are you apologizing to me?? They never apologized to Paul or Ian Broudie about the whole event!"

The bottomline was, told Roque sharply is that, "Orange and Lemons are making it sound as if it?s OK to copy melody of a foreign song then use it in their own song that ironically speaks about Filipinos."

Roque said she had a hard time believing that the local act did rip?off "Chandeliers." She stressed, "I?ve long heard [of] rumors long before ?Pinoy Ako? became a hit that the song is parehong-pareho ng ?Chandeliers? but of course I did not want to believe because the people from Orange and Lemons are my friends. In fact it was me that firstly introduced them through Pulp magazine and before they were featured, my editor then had to ask me if I really know them. It was quite a struggle before I finally came out with the feature that started their rise."

Because she had been in constant connection with Simpson, Simpson?s Brit music label Skyray and the label?s representative Nick Halliwell, Roque notified the concerned individuals. "Right now, they are waiting for a move from Warner Chappell?s because they own the rights of the song," Roque revealed.

Asked why she decided to come out with these allegations, she replied, "Paul is my friend but other than that, I have no stake in this thing. Nothing. I just happen to know the truth and I don?t mind sharing it with people who may have been humming a song they believed [to be] original. You just have to listen to both songs to conclude that it?s a violation of intellectual rights."

http://www.mb.com.ph/issues/2005/10/16/ENTR2005101646835.html

Ngayon siguro eh talagang nagkaalaman na!

omelette parade said...

YOU KNOW WAHT "CRAB MENTALITY IS", BRYANT???

THOUSANDS OF BILLIONS OF SONGS WERE MADE IN THE WHOLE WORLD....

THERE WOULD BE A GREAT POSSIBILITIES NA MAGKAROON NG SIMILARITIES ANG MGA TONO, STYLE, MELODIES NG MGA KANTA...

HOW MANY GUITAR CHORDS ARE THERE?

ONTI DBA? KULANG PA PARA SA MILYON MILYON NA MGA BANDA SA MUNDO....

OVBIOUS ANG PANLALAGLAG MO SA ONL!!!

BE FAIR ENOUGH TO JUDGE!!!

"PINOY AKO" IS NOTHING COMPARED TO ALL THE GREAT SONGS AND PERFORMANCES DONE BY THE BAND...KAHIT WALA 'YUN...I ASSURE YOU, THEY CAN STILL MAKE NAME!!!!
(mark that)

U THINK UR OPEN-MINDED ENOUGH???

UR ALSO A MUSICIAN, RIGHT???

WHY DOM'T YOU GIVE URSELF TO TRY ONL??? I DON'T THINK YOU CAN HANDLE THAT!!!!

O.P. said...

YOU KNOW WHAT "CRAB MENTALITY IS", BRYANT???

THOUSANDS OF BILLIONS OF SONGS WERE MADE IN THE WHOLE WORLD....

THERE WOULD BE GREAT POSSIBILITIES NA MAGKAROON NG SIMILARITIES ANG MGA TONO, STYLE, MELODIES NG MGA KANTA...

HOW MANY GUITAR CHORDS ARE THERE?

ONTI DBA? KULANG PA PARA SA MILYON MILYON NA MGA BANDA SA MUNDO....

OVBIOUS ANG PANLALAGLAG MO SA ONL!!!

BE FAIR ENOUGH TO JUDGE!!!

"PINOY AKO" IS NOTHING COMPARED TO ALL THE GREAT SONGS AND PERFORMANCES DONE BY THE BAND...KAHIT WALA 'YUN...I ASSURE YOU, THEY CAN STILL MAKE NAME!!!!
(mark that)

U THINK UR OPEN-MINDED ENOUGH???

UR ALSO A MUSICIAN, RIGHT???

WHY DON'T YOU GIVE URSELF TO TRY ONL??? I DON'T THINK YOU CAN HANDLE THAT!!!!

O.P. said...

"WHEN I'M RIGHT, NO ONE CAN REMEMBER...BUT WHEN I'M WRONG, NO ONE CAN FORGET"

BAKIT KAYA???????????

O.P. said...

"WHEN I'M RIGHT, NO ONE CAN REMEMBER...BUT WHEN I'M WRONG, NO ONE CAN FORGET"

BAKIT KAYA???????????

bryant said...

hi.

if you read my post on this ONL issue, you should have read there the part where i said I used to like Orange and Lemons. Being fair to them? Why, I was even defending them before! When the first rumors began about the plagiarized song, I said, maybe someone wants to destroy ONL and water down its success.

But when I heard the song, that is is undoubtedly a rip-off, I initially thought that maybe the band would say something like the song was heavily inspired from The Care song. But, no! What they did initially was to just say that they are heavily influenced by New Wave bands.

I know the chord progression rule stuff. But, have you really really took time to hear the song? The chords were basically the same with the UK band.

Btw, will make another post on this one (hopefully, my last) sometime.

giselle said...

This is a sad affair not only for Paul but to the entire filipino community since the putative song
in question has been flagrantly plagiarized.
If the song were about feelings, emotions, topics
of the day then maybe some or if not, most would have felt they could have let it slide except those who
are personally involved. However, this song talks about the modern filipino, as of what PBB depicts, maybe its modern lifestyle…This song, has become quite an anthem to the simple and ordinary filipino because they found pride in it
and they somehow see themselves in it that they are top class and can compete with the global changes
the world has to offer. In this regard, for those that defend or support ONL or for those whose dreams were shattered and are
in denial then basing things on an academician’s point of view….allegedly, they did not violate the 7 chord progression rule regarding plagiarism. I hate to burst the bubble but the 7 chord
progression rule, in landmark cases decided by foreign courts
under the Intellectual Property Rights which have
been in actual existence post or pre-world war 1, this
is a flimsy defense since the pattern could be changed
anytime by a fret or a half-note on the seventh note. Presently, under the 8 chord progression based on
the drum and baseline, if the song or composition in
question fails to change at the 8th base and drum
progression then it is a vital requisite to be
considered as a plagiarized material not discounting the facts of testimonies of credible witnesses and “scholars” to that effect.
This is what admittedly happened during the course of this song.
The worse part in this case is for the band to not give credence to where the song was allegedly
“inspired” from so as the real composers would be deprived of their royalties and their dignity.
Mind you, it’s not only our dignity and credibility as a songwriter that is in question but our respect to
other’s intellectual property rights as well. Cueshe, Session Road etc. may not be getting much attention because their songs dealt with corporeal,if not, things which do not appeal to a filipino’s sense of patriotism. However, ONL’s song just hit the x on the spot because it appeals to filipino pride in general. I guess this is a resounding wake up call for all
the bands to please copyright their songs. It's simple, if signed artists get ripped off, what more unsigned bands wherein anyone can just reproduce the melody or even the lyrics, bring it to a recording label and voila', they wake up one morning listening to
their song being sung and maybe arranged differently by
someone else.

Anonymous said...

actually i really like thisbandalamnyo baone time ko palang silanapanood ng live di ko nasilamakalimutan gandakasi ng mga kanta nila especially yung heaven knows ewan koat adik na adik ako sa bandang ito atsakaang galing mgavocalist nila at especially yung drummer nila at guitarist nila na supaer gwapo sana ma meet ko ulit kayo pagpatuloynyo lang yan at lam ko malayo mararating nyo..........

Anonymous said...

if you don't think the whole thing is copied from chords down to arrangement (except maybe the lyrics which was not by OnL), then you better check this out: http://media.putfile.com/pinoychandelierstayo

Anonymous said...

Orange and Lemons' Pinoy ako is not considered plagiarism in either general or legal terms. In general, plagiarism means copying of one's work and not acknowledging it and if you listen to pinoy ako and chandeliers at first you'll think that they shared the same melody and chord progression but if you'll listen well(enough) you'll recognize the difference b/w the 2 songs. And in legal terms, a song is considered copied from another song if it has 8 consecutive notes same as the other song and in the case of OnL's Pinoy ako, the sequence of the notes are totally different from the Care's chandeliers. Besides they acknowledged naman that the song was inspired by the Care siguro nga they didn't pay the record company who released the song but just like what i said earlier it is not considered copied, so they don't need to pay for anything, copyright issues or whatever. Another thing is why all the sudden buzz about OnL?!!! If i know, kung di sumikat ang pinoy ako no one will ever find out who the hell is the care (no offense to the care's fans) and no one will bother to find out who the hell they are(walang magaaksaya ng panahon para icompare yung song ng OnL sa the Care kung di sumikat sila). Parang feeling ko tuloy these people who are like saying bad things about OnL are just trying to pull down the guys, and i feel bad because the band is being embraced by the people then all of a sudden this issue will come out, parang why all of sudden?!! Diba?! Is this crab mentality talaga ba?! Why can't we be just happy for them.

Anonymous said...

Ang hirap ng fan talaga ng ONL, no right to reason basta mapagtanggol lang ang idolo nila KAHIT MALI! Ang mali ay di pwedeng tuwirin ng isa pang pagkakamali!

PINAGKAPERAHAN NA NGA NILA! KAYA MAYABANG! TAPOS TUTUGTOG TUGTOG SA ANTI-PIRACY?! KASAMA CUESHE?! MAGALING TALAGA ANG PINOY!

Anonymous said...

This is not an issue of being a fan of OnL or not, this issue is being taken to a limit that we shouldn't be taking it. And all of us has the right to reason and give our insights and opinions about a particular subject. All subjects has two sides and in this case it's whether to believe if OnL did really copied chandeliers or not. I'm not a big fan of OnL but with all the facts i've read and grounds that the 2 sides have presented, I would like to state that (this is only an opinion coming from me)Pinoy ako shared a bit similarity with the care's chandeliers but like us individuals who shared similarities with co-individuals it is not a bad thing, it is just that sometimes uniqueness is what we all crave for. And with Pinoy ako that is what is lacking but for me its not copied from the care's chandeliers, it just shared similarities that sometimes can't be helped especially in music, if artists' genres are the same the sound often share similarities.

Anonymous said...

shared similarities? e di dapat shared royalties. Di sinasadya tapos inamin nila sa sariling egroup na talagang kinopya nila due to pressure? Iba yun.

bryant said...

ang gulo di ba?

Anonymous said...

the boys from orange and lemons did not stated that they copied the song from the care's chandeliers, what they did say was pinoy ako was inspired by the song of the care but they never said they copied pinoy ako from the care. copied and inspired are two totally different word.

bryant said...

who said ONL admitted copying Chandeliers? They didn't! We know that already. In fact, that's the problem.

Anonymous said...

Because another individual who posted here is claiming that the boys from OnL stated that they copied the song. I'm just trying to point out that OnL didnt admitted anything, cause what he or she if thats the case, was trying to say was that OnL said they didn't copied then later on they did say they copied it. And that never happened.

Reciyr said...

Hmm... You should listen to

U2 - " Where the Streets Have No Name"

especially the Intro Part.

And You'll all be the Judge.

mercury said...

wow dude ang daming umaway sa yo. im really not a fan of onl. pero sana kung kukuha sila ng part sa isang song e i-acknowledge man lang. onting respeto. no artist wants their thing to be copied just like that. still havent heard chandelier but based on other's people's comments (especially yours), i believed they did rip off the song. haha. wala sanang umaway sakin. btw, im also not a fan of pbb.

bryant said...

haha. oo nga eh. pansin mo rin? actually i did not mind that. after all, ONL has become a big band with so many fans (as evidence by the level of hate hurled against me for my posts on the issue *lol). How I wished that the people commenting here should have tackled the issue on a more rational level, rather than answering it on an obviously emotional level. But again, that's wishful thinking. thanks for reading my blog!

curious fan of onl said...

i can't believe it they almost copied the song.. but on pinoy ako.. the bass is obviously heard.. but still i'm shock right now thanks for posting the link of chandeliers mp3....

Anonymous said...

The sad thing about is that everyone seems to make a big deal out if it. If you don't like the song, then don't listen to it. If you're just a mere music listener and can't even write a 1 liner song, then SHUT UP! They have the talent for it and you don't so who's the better person?

margalaux said...

uhmm.. for me po.. cueshe po tlga ayw ko.. but no comment ako for OnL and Session Road.. though session road's not bragging about their career.. eh ang cueshe ksi mayayabang na.. the best band daw ng cebu?? ba!! ako pagkakaalam ko URBANDUB ang best band ng cebu!! hahaha.. well.. i'm a teenager po ksi.. and that's what i lyk.. i mean.. i respect others' musical taste.. well one thing i've learned sa rakista.com>>MUSICAL TASTE IS AN OPINION NOT A LAW.. go and spread the word.. hehe thanks!!

orangepantss said...

When i heard the song Chandelier, I got totally disgusted with Orange and Lemons. Hahaha im sorry for their fans but ripping off is such a rude thing to do;)

arlevi said...

mga new waver , nakikinig ba kayo sa 103.5 KLite , ung new wave segment nila tuwing saturday night 10pm to 12midnight. eto share ko sa inyo... nung Anniversary ng " Faster Than Lite" which is the segment name of 103.5Klite for new wave song nag-perform ang ORANGE AND LEMONS.. and they play some of NEW WAVE SONGs from THE SMITH, THE CARE and the like.. hindi pa sila noon ganon ka-sikat o kakilala ng mga tao pero naghanap na ako ng una nilang album (pirata nga lang ang nakuha ko.. hehehe) and i like it pero ng lumabas na ang PINOY AKO.. manggagaya sila... i have a lot of New Wave CDs and some of them i convert to MP3.. hindi pa cla kilala eh pinapatugtog ko na ang " THE CARE - Diamonds and Emeralds" kaya wag nilang sasabihin na nde sila nanggaya or nangopya .. AYE - New Waver of Marikina City.

arlevi said...

mga new waver , nakikinig ba kayo sa 103.5 KLite , ung new wave segment nila tuwing saturday night 10pm to 12midnight. eto share ko sa inyo... nung Anniversary ng " Faster Than Lite" which is the segment name of 103.5Klite for new wave song nag-perform ang ORANGE AND LEMONS.. and they play some of NEW WAVE SONGs from THE SMITH, THE CARE and the like.. hindi pa sila noon ganon ka-sikat o kakilala ng mga tao pero naghanap na ako ng una nilang album (pirata nga lang ang nakuha ko.. hehehe) and i like it pero ng lumabas na ang PINOY AKO.. manggagaya sila... i have a lot of New Wave CDs and some of them i convert to MP3.. hindi pa cla kilala eh pinapatugtog ko na ang " THE CARE - Diamonds and Emeralds" kaya wag nilang sasabihin na nde sila nanggaya or nangopya .. AYE - New Waver of Marikina City.

arlevi said...

mga new waver , nakikinig ba kayo sa 103.5 KLite noon, ung new wave segment nila tuwing saturday night 10pm to 12midnight. eto share ko sa inyo... nung Anniversary ng " Faster Than Lite" which is the segment name of 103.5Klite for new wave show nag-perform ang ..well of course the original -THE DAWN - performing the Songs of U2 and FLOCK of SEAGULLS and ORANGE AND LEMONS play some of NEW WAVE SONGs from THE SMITH, THE CARE and THE RAILWAY CHILDREN ata yon... hindi pa sila noon ganon ka-sikat or kakilala ng mga tao pero naghanap na ako ng una nilang album (pirata nga lang ang nakuha ko.. hehehe) and i like it pero ng lumabas na ang PINOY AKO.. waaaahhhhhh....manggagaya pa la sila... i have a lot of New Wave CDs and some of them i convert to MP3.. hindi pa cla kilala eh pinapatugtog ko na ang " THE CARE - Diamonds and Emeralds" kaya wag nilang sasabihin na nde sila nanggaya or nangopya .. AYE - New Waver of Marikina City.

Anonymous said...

mga new wavers--comment naman po dito..

OnL - " a beginning of something"
the housemartins - "happy hour"

-the housemartins is another band from the new wave era....

youtube.com/debbje said...

very interesting subject here
I checked the song of Cueshe and do not find it very similar to Silverchair.
By the way...can I just tell you something?Silverchair is not grunge...it was 12 years ago but they have changed a lot since then....

Anonymous said...

are you tone deaf? the only similarity is the beat and genre. whats ur hidden agenda?

Billboard Girl said...

ive been a fan since "Just Like A Splendii Love Song". NU107 had been playing it even before the album was released.

i was so pround of them then. New sound amids all these bland rock/pop bands.

this whole, "Pinoy Ako" thing is such a dissappointment.

danny said...

oops, sorry. i only learned about this issue when i watched pinoy big brother. and unfortunately, the downloads are not available anymore. can i find them at another site?

bryant said...

hi danny,

I'm sorry if the links to the files in this entry are no longer available. I am pretty sure you can find them in other hosted sites.

Thanks,
Bryant

Benjie Tech said...

Sad to see some people still defending what is obviously a wrong thing to do. The problem is that some people have a very shallow perspective of music..and for them copying a song to make fame and fortune for themselves is forgivable..I guess thats what seperates a true artist from a person who just likes music.

 
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